Night sky.

Did I mentioned I signed up for a pen & ink drawing class in September? I'm excited. It's a whole new skill set to learn - drawing without an undo button. No safety net.

I try to do something creative everyday, whether its a quick sketch on the old iPad or knit a few rows of a sweater. It keeps me sane.

This was done with the Sketji app. The effects are more like a brush painting than drawing. A fun app.

Time goes by fast.

What's on my desk. 

The weather is still warm but kind of cloudy and rainy. The mornings are dark when I wait for the bus now. Although August is not quite at the end yet, it feels like the end of summer. Another year going by quickly.

Drawing done on Sketchclub on the iPad.

5 year journal, part 2.

5 year journal pages in Paper 53

I'm going to commit to doing a five year journal.  Just write one line a day.  I tried that before but got bored very quickly.  Maybe it will be different this time because I'm doing this on my iPad using Paper 53 app for this.  A quick line and a quick doodle.  I can do this.  This might be easier than doing a paper journal - I always have my iPad with me. 

Old favourite shoes

Going through my closet and came across these oldies but goodies from the old Fox and Fluevog days. Amazingly, they're still in good condition. I gave the suede a bit of a brush with the suede brush and they look good as new.

Wildflowers

Wildflowers

Digital painting done on my iPad, using Procreate and Artrage for the canvas texture. Inspiration for this piece came from Splatter paint tutorial over at Tammy's My Flower Journal. Although the tutorial is for real paint and paper, the techniques can easily be translated for digital painting. I used the splatter brush in the spray can set in Procreate. Once the painting was finished, it was imported into Artrage for the canvas texture.

Fifty two

Fifty Two

Something about turning 52 that wasn't there when I turned 50. I'm that much closer to retirement and have been thinking of how I want to spend my sunset years. In truth, I've been thinking of what I want to do when I retire and how to prepare for it. Financially, it's going to be fine. Hubby will retire first in less than than two years. In my retirement, I want to have more time to make stuff, sit around and read all day if I wanted to.

As part of my preparation, I've been taking a few drawing and painting classes. I've signed up for another one in September and I'm really looking forward to it. I think, one is never too old to learn new things. It seems weird to think about retirement already. I don't feel like I'm old enough yet.

The photomontage was done on my iPad, using Sketchclub for pretty much all of it and Artrage for the background texture. The text was done on Documents, imported into Sketchclub as an image load. I wanted it to look like an old newspaper clipping. This was done using the sepia filter in Sketchclub.

Photo corners courtesy of Retoucher07039 on deviantART, tweaked in Sketchclub to fit my picture.

No Undo button in Real Life

Scribble Drawing

The idea was to make a scribble and draw something with it.  I did this using FinngrPro  app on my iPad.  The appeal of FinngrPro is there is no undo button. Whatever marks you make, you work with.  If you don't like something, you have to paint over it or make it into something else.  That was an interesting challenge. 

A metaphoric lesson on life...you work with what you have and make the most of what you're given.  Sometimes you have to look at your mistakes from a different perspective. 

Scribble and drawing done on FinngrPro, imported to Sketchclub for the border (no reason, other than I wanted to), and for the signature brush.

Time

To Do

The question for yesterday was "What is the one thing you want to accomplish tomorrow?"  Interesting that it did not ask what I accomplished today but for tomorrow.  I started to mske a To-Do list but that was not the question. What was the one thing I wanted to accomplish?  The question made me more mindful of what I needed to accomplish not just for today but for my week off work. Although I still have my list of chores for this week, I'm going to make sure I have time to do things for me.

This journal page was done on the iPad with Sketchclub. I tried to do this page as if I had painted it, laying on the colours on one layer, rather than multiple layers.

What did I have for lunch today?

Sushi, of course

Sushi is my go-to lunch when I don't know what to eat and I didn't bring my lunch. So far, it's three days in a row this week.

I know this is boring stuff but I told myself I will try and do something everyday. I liked the Everyday in May series. The prompts help...I think I needed someone else to do the thinking for me. When someone else tells me what to draw, it takes the pressure off me. I've been using the 365 questions for the 5 year journaling when I'm stuck for ideas. Trying to draw sushi was a challenge trying to get the rice to look rice-like. Baby steps, right?

Sketched on my iPad with Sketchclub and imported to Artrage for the background. Newspaper background was imported in as an image load and distorted using transform. 

Did I made a difference today?

I like to think that in some small way I did made a difference today. I used cloth bags for my groceries. I recycled my cans and plastics. I shopped local. These are all the things my family do now as a matter of course.  Little things adds up.

I think it's great that all these things are now part of our normal daily routine. By doing so, yes, I made a difference today.

The weather was much cooler today and I was able to get some knitting done. I found this project while rummaging in my workroom looking for some sock yarn. I forgot all about this project...it's going to be a light knitted tee done with Habu silk. I'm about halfway through so I might be able to finish this before the end of summer. It's all stockinette stitch and knitted in the round so it's really boring.

Just because

I've been doing my digital journal pages like I would if doing them in a paper journal - layering things on, not worrying about things being covered or how it looks as long as it makes sense to me.
It's quite a liberating feeling.

For the first time in many years I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about work. There seems to be a real commitment for change. Same song, same dance, different partners.  Let's wait and see if things will really change this time.

One hot summer day

It's funny how one thought can lead to something totally different than the original. I saw a boy walking down the street.  What was unusual was that he was dressed in black from head to toe...black fleece hoodie, long black jeans, black hi-top runners, black backpack - on one of the hottest days of the summer. I couldn't help but wondered if all that was for the sake of his fashion statement or was there something more? What was his story? Where was he going? Will he be comfortable when he gets there? As I started to sketch, I started thinking about where I was going with all this and I have no idea. I see some sketches people have done and I would have considered finished when they were at the halfway point. How do you know when something finished?

Life is a lot simpler with knitting.

Sketched on iPad using Sketchclub.

Flower arrangement

Flower arrangement

This started as a digital collage in Sketchclub, using some of the soft edge brushes to make jagged shapes to simulate ripped paper.

1.  Load base drawing/photo.
2. Create a new layer on top and fill with a colour you want your "paper" edge to be.
3. Using a soft edge brush, set it on erase and create random shapes.
4. Merge top layer to photo.
5. Select fill and set to erase.
6. Erase colour, leaving shapes.
7. In Sketchclub, how much of a "paper" edge remains depend on how sensitive you set your fill function.

Once I created several sheets of shapes, I imported them into Procreate. Procreate now has a selection tool so you can select specific shapes. You can cut & paste and move the shapes where ever you want.

The picture was then imported to the Glaze app for a painterly effect but this could be easily achieved in Procreate or Sketchclub using Smudge.

Picture was then imported back to Sketchclub for the pen sketch.

Kitchen Sunday

Kitchen Sunday

Sunday mornings are usually spent in the kitchen baking the batch of weekly muffins and whatever else needed.  This week I made a batch of Charshu for noodle and soup.  It's a very time consuming process but so worth it!  The leftover marinade was used to make the soft hardboiled eggs.

The journal page was done on Sketchclub with a couple of photo edits.  I've been creating brushes in Procreate and bringing them over to Sketchclub.  I think my ideal app would be a combination of Procreate and Sketchclub.

Thankful for:
1. The realization that my life is not bad - as much as I grumble and groan about work, it does afford me the ability to enjoy my real life.
2.  Weekends are the best - I've been noticing I do get to spend a good deal of time on the computer or my iPad.
3.  My niece - she turned 20 today and I think the world of her.  She is funny, quiet, shy, unpretentious, quirky, and extremely creative.

New journal book

Journal - July 13/13

 I bought another little journal book. It's small and black with a hard cover but soft binding so it will lay flat. The million dollar question is - will I use it? I'm not sure. I've been reading everything I could find on the Internet and the one glaring fact is that I need to just do it. You can't get better without practice. I know all that. But I really prefer my iPad. There's no undo in a paper journal. I will carry this little kit around until the novelty wears off or until I use it. Until then, it's an iPad page again.

It doesn't matter...I love new notebooks.

On the fibre front, I'm still knitting my sweater from the recycled denim. I regret doing this in 3.75mm needles!  It's going to take a long time!

Simple lines.

Simple lines

I've been reading so much lately about creating or making something everyday. It got to the point I felt overwhelmed by all the great stuff people were doing.  I didn't know where to start again.

Sometimes all you have time for is just a few simple lines of doodle or a couple of rows of knitting. And that's ok too.

Sketched on iPad.

Canada Day

I find it scary in this day and age that so many people still have so little rights. I am so very thankful that I live in a country where my personal right matter.

Happy Canada Day!

Drawing Apps for iPad

I have a lot of apps for drawing and sketching on my iPad. I think I'm hoping that I will find that ONE app that will make me a great artist. Lol! As much as there's an app for pretty much everything, I really doubt there's an app for that. It's just going to take a lot of practice drawing and drawing and drawing. It's like knitting, you can't knit one row and expect to be perfect.

Sketchclub - great for all around sketching. It has text and vector drawing capabilities. Import to other apps with transparency for more editing. Great to use as a photoediting app as well. Great friendly user interface and easy to learn. Files can be easily imported through iTunes or photoshop for editing and printing.

Artrage - it's a great app but the lagging drives me crazy. This might be my second favourite app if it wasn't for the lagging. Love all the different canvas textures. If you don't mind the lag, you can do wonderful work on this app. I like the watercolour on this app, though. It's an app that you need to take some time to learn.

Procreate - love the brushes and the ease you can create fabulous brushes. Importing them to Sketchclub is a breeze. Import can be done with tranparency if you turn off the main colour on the background layer. Easy to import to iTunes and photoshop for more indepth editing and printing. The transform is not as smooth as Sketchclub.

Sketchbook Pro - when I first got it, it found it hard to learn. I didn't find it user friendly for me. This was my first drawing/painting app and you really need to know how to adjust your brushes. Over the year, the various upgrades made it much more user friendly...or maybe I'm starting to understand how to make adjustments better. I don't know...it is a nice app and I use it occasionally but for now, I'm so much more comfortable with the other apps that I rarely use this one.

I have close to 10 drawing/painting apps. The others are much smaller apps and do a fraction of what these ones do.   I'll play around with them once in a while.

No matter which app you use, the important thing is to get to know it and what it can do. From what I see on the Internet with the work other people put out, they're all pretty good.  It's like knitting needles...it doesn't really matter if you use wood or bamboo or metal or plastic, as long as you're comfortable with the tool you're using, it's all good.

Edited to add - moments after I posted this, Procreate came out with a kick-ass update. Honestly, they're all great apps...Sketchclub is still my go-to app but love all the others too.

Just a doodle

June 27/13 journal page

Done on my iPad using Sketchclub and imported to Artrage for the texture. Coffee cup brush was created with Procreate.

Perpetual Night

Perpetual night

 The painting was inspired by a wonderful Canadian artist, Ted Harrison - I love his use of bright bold colours.

I wanted to play with the new smaint feature on the app. Smaint is smudge with paint. Colours were laid down for the sky first in bands of darkest purple to a sunset orange/yellow. Once that was done, the paint option of smaint was set to off and smudged to blend the sky. White stars were done using small tiny dots. The water was the hardest but I was happy with the results. I wanted it to have some waves for movement. Once that was done, all the layers were compressed and a copy was made. The top copy was put through a noise filter to give it a glow effect.

This was done on my iPad, using Sketchclub app.

Remember to breathe

Remember to breathe

This is something I tell people at work when projects are overdue and everything has to happen at the same time. Sometimes I feel so overwhelmed that you just want to crawl under your desk and hide. It's something that I need reminding of once in a while - breathe.

I'm on vacation now - two weeks. It's not going to be a relaxing vacation. We're finally getting our floors redone. The carpets are finally going. I'm excited but it's a lot of work. We're not doing the actual floor work - a company is doing that. We're painting and moving furniture. Daunting task in the best of times. Last week, I sprained both ankles - stupid thing to do. It's been very interesting trying to stay off my feet and washing walls painting at the same time.

This was done during my "rest" periods on my iPad.

Remember to breathe - everything will get done and it will be okay.

Kindness of strangers

June 6/13 Journal page

Crazy busy at work, shit happened repeatedly all day. Bright spot was going out for sushi at lunch. Left work late, got off the bus and promptly fell, and skinned my knee. The same knee I skinned badly less than a month ago.  The same knee with the ugly scar that was starting to fade. Oh well, it will fade in another 20 years.

But, you know what? It was not a bad day really. I've been looking for binding coils and someone gave me a name and phone number of a print shop. They didn't have what I needed but gave me the number of the company they dealt with. So very helpful. The second company didn't have what I needed but offered to bind my scrapbooks for free when I told him I only needed to bind a couple every so often. Wow! He said they bind so many that slipping in a couple for me is not a big deal. Kindness of strangers made my day.

Journal page June 4/13

June 4 journal page

Salted toffee biscotti with drizzled chocolate

Chocolate drizzled toffee biscotti 

Costco had the Noni ones and they are so very yummy. Of course, once you're hooked, they went and discontinued them. 

I found the recipe here at A Few Shortcuts. 

Sometimes you gotta improvise. The plan was to make chocolate dipped salted Caramel biscotti.  But I couldn't find any of the caramel bits without having to peel wrappers and chop into itty bitty pieces. I found Skor toffee bits. Close enough. Same recipe, sub in toffee bits. It's all good.

Sprinkled less salt on top - request from my salt-conscious hubby, used a nice, fancy smancy chocolate and drizzled, not dipped.

The thing with homemade biscotti is that it never lasts as long as you hoped. Good thing they're pretty easy to make.

EDiM - 30 Closet

Hall closet

We're in the process of clearing out a lot of stuff in our house.  In a couple of weeks, our carpets are being ripped up and replaced with wood floors. As much as I'm looking forward to that, it has been quite a task going through everything.  When I say everything, I mean EVERYTHING!  It's really amazing the amount of stuff you can accumulate in 18 years.

I've really enjoyed the challenge of doing a sketch everyday. I started late with Every Day in May so I'm going to continue in June until I've completed the set.

Sketched on my iPad with Sketchclub.

EDiM 28 - Pitcher

Lemonade

I thought this would be an easy sketch but it was harder than I expected. Drawing glass is not easy. And I suck at drawing ice cubes. I guess I'll have my lemonade warm.

Drawn on my iPad with Sketchclub.

EDiM 27 - Sticky

Sticky molasses

This was in my cupboard. I really don't know how long it's been there but I don't think molasses goes bad.  I love the smell and taste of molasses but it's so sticky that it's a pain to clean.

EDiM #25 - Tote Bag

Duluth tote bag

Sketched on my iPad using Sketchclub. I'm going to be sad when May is over and there's no more EDiM.

EDiM 23 Summer Joy

Fresh peaches

Fresh peaches with mango in a smoothie. Yummy!

EDiM - 20 Favourite Drink

Long Americano

I'm sure there will be more than one or two sketches today with coffee being the favourite drink. Long Americano. Best drink ever. Yes, my coffee cup has a knitted sweater. With ribbing.  Every well dressed coffee cup needs a sweater.

Starbucks has this thing where you buy one of their reusable plastic cups for $1.00 and every time you use it, they take $.10 off. Considering I got this cup in January, I think I'm ahead.

Sketched on iPad in Sketchclub, tabletop done in Artrage.

A Quilt

A Quilt

Sketched and completely done on my iPad using Sketchclub app. The idea was to re-create the effects of a quilt in progress. Most of the time was trying to duplicate the look of frayed fabric. The fabric texture was a template on Sketchclub, put on as an overlay.

The Sketchclub App was just recently updated.  I think this is the best update so far. LOVE this app!

Play Date Cafe Challenge

Dance!

I recently came across The Play Date Cafe. Each week a challenge is posted and you create something using the criteria set out. This week's challenge are the colours maroon, poppy, and soft jade.

I really had a lot of fun with this challenge. This was all done on my iPad, using the Sketchclub app for the colouring and textures. The idea for this was the phrase "Dance as if no one is watching". This was running through my head all day long today.

EDiM #15 - Draw your favourite pencil.

Favourite pencil

This is just plastic mechanical pencil but I like it that it's thick and small. I'm really enjoying these EDiM drawings. They're simple quick sketches - anything that gets me drawing and doing something is a good thing.

EDiM #14 - A Figurine

Santa

EDiM #14 - a figurine. This is a sketch of a wooden Santa I carved many years ago. I was intrigued by a wood carving show on PBS and wanted to try carving. I sent away for the video - Wood carving with Rick Butz, and taught myself how to carve. Although I made a few things, this Santa was always my favourite.

Sketch done in Artrage app on my iPad.

A Pillow

EDiM #13

Every Day in May. Draw a pillow. This was done on my iPad, using the Sketchclub app.  I like the idea of doing simple sketches - nothing compicted.

Sunflower

Sunflower

Not really following the May questions today. I wanted to work on this sunflower that I've had sitting in my saved files in Sketchclub for a while now. The photo reference used was a picture I took of a giant sunflower in our yard last summer.  To be honest, the photo is so much better. I know what's wrong with the sketch but don't have the expertise to fix it. The petals are flat and have no depth. I think this will come with more practice. Lol! Never let the lack of talent stop me before. 😄

Lost Time

Lost Time

 I can't even keep up with a simple couple of lines for the 5 year journal. I decided to use the daily questions as a prompt to do a digital art journal page. The deal I made with myself is that if I skipped a day or two, I'm not going to sweat it. Just doing something will be enough. This one was for May 10/13 - Today I lost __. I felt I lost time by not doing what I felt like doing, which was to work on my sketches and not worry about what people may think. It makes me happy when I'm working on something - anything. An hour on the train is my time and I will not worry about people looking at me funny.

Not the woman you see...

Ok, I'm still loving my iPad for sketching and everything. It's been fun and challenging trying to create digital journal pages on my iPad.

A test of sharpies on a ceramic mug.

There's been a lot of talk of using a regular sharpie marker to decorate a mug, baked in the oven for 350 deg for 30 mins. Some say it worked great for them and others say it doesn't work at all. Of course, I had to try it for myself.

DIYopolis has a great list of tips to try for this sharpie thing.

Edited October 18/14 - the link for DYIoplolis doesn't seem to exist anymore.

1. Cheap ceramic mug - yep.
2. Clean well - yep.
3. Wipe area with rubbing alcohol - yep.
4. Write or draw design and let dry for 24 hours - yep.
5. Bake for 425 deg for 30 mins -yep.

As a test, I used a red regular Sharpie and used oil paint Sharpies for the black and purple. I wanted to see how they compared.

Just painted, before baking. 

In hindsight, I should have tested with a regular black sharpie too. The red was nice and bright before baking but faded to an orange colour after.

After baking

This is the mug after cooling in the oven and washed by hand with a dishcloth and dish soap. Scrubing wasn't vigorous - just washed as a normal coffee mug would be. The black and purple paint markers held up well to the baking. The red faded but seems to be ok.  Next test will be the dishwasher. 

This is the mug after the dishwasher. It seems to have worked...with the exception of the red fading, the regular sharpie stayed on. The purple is the same - looks different as the dishwasher photo was taken inside.

DYI Smash Journal

Despite great intentions, I've come to the realization that I'm not much of a journal keeper. So when I first heard about Smash journals, I was intrigued. Supposedly they're really easy to use - just fill up the journal with your stuff. That's it.

I'm a sucker for any kind of gimmicky, bandwagon type craft. The probem with the Smash journals was that they sold out super quick. And they were $40.00. So, out of sight, out of mind,  life goes on unrecorded. 😃

A year goes by and I start hearing about Smash journals again. This time, people are making their own. I'm still intrigued. A few weeks ago, I see them for the first time in person and was really not impressed. Not liking the colour choices either and all the extra stuff they want you to buy. The only thing I liked about it was the pen - it was a pen with a glue stick on the other end.

I came home and found an old organizer cover I had forgotten about. Put a couple of sheets of card stock in the printer and using the graphs found at Polar Graph, I printed several nice patterned sheets. I liked the idea of using a ring binder rather than a wire bound book so I can move the sheets around and insert things if I wanted them.

Total cost for the paper - $.68 for 17 sheets of card stock. I was able to cut three out of each sheet giving me 51 small sheets to start with. Total time including punching holes, printing the lines, rounding the pages came to just under an hour. As for the glue stick pen, I always carry a pen and glue stick in my bag anyway.

If I never use this, no big deal. The worse that could happen is that I'll have a notebook that I liked and didn't spend $40 on it. That makes me happy.

Happy Easter

My first video on YouTube.

Fresh bagels

Found this recipe for easy Easy Bread Machine Bagels and they were really easy. They look like real bagels and tastes like real bagels!

Good thing I snap this picture...a few of them have already been consumed. We call this "testing".  We have to make sure they're ok, you know.

Googled to find out the best way to store fresh bagels and the general feeling is to store them at room temperature in a ziplock bag. Putting them in the fridge would make them go stale faster.

Pinterest

This is bad...very bad...I'm on Pinterest. This brings time-killing to a whole new level. Happy Spring!

Click your heels three times...

New shoes always makes me happy.

A bit of this...

Sometimes being creative can be a small thing. You don't need to break out the heavy duty art supplies to have a bit of creativity  in your day. Sometimes it can be as simple as bending paper clips into heart shapes.  Or manipulating a photo taken on your iPad. Sometimes that's enough to keep you going.

Thankful for...
1. Lately, it's been hard to feel thankful for things when work is going from worse to hell bound. I know  that there are people with a lot less than me and I shouldn't complain. Work is trying to kill me. My boss just resigned.  I'm glad for her - she got out. Sad for me.  On the other hand, I have to think of the positive of this situation. Not sure what that is yet, but I have to keep looking for that positive.

2. I'm thankful for my fibre friends. It's been a long time since I've seen them but I'm thankful for them.

3.  Two years to go! There is an end in sight!

...apparently, not long. I'm behind on my 5- year journal.

Hello 2013 and Happy Chinese New Year!

Sun Neen Fie Lok! It's the Year of the Snake.

When it's been months since your last blog update, you really don't know where to start. This can cause more blog apathy as you find it daunting to put everything that's happened in that timespan into a few short paragraphs. I think the best thing to do is to not bother and move on.

I started a 5 year Journal last month.  Each date is divided into 5 sections. The idea is to write a few lines each day on the same date every year. It'll be cool to see your thoughts on that date over five years. I found a set of questions you can answer each day.

Lets see how long I can keep this going. 

A Pear

Yup, it's a pear. Drawn on my iPad. Looks kinda like s butt.

Thanksgiving

October here has been fantastic so far.  It's been a beautiful Fall so far.  I love  the cool sunny days. The crabapple are ripening on the tree in the backyard and the birds and wildlife are having a grand ole time!

It's Thanksgiving so here's my thankful list:

1. My dad - although he passes away many years ago, I still miss him a lot. His birthday was around this time of the year so Thanksgiving always reminded me of him even more so.
2. The kid - I think he turned out quite well. He's at the age where things are happening for him. Opportunities for work and school may have him out of town for a while. I'm happy for him but I know I'll miss my baby.
3. I'm always thankful that I always have opportunities. I like being curious and trying new things. You just never know what your next new hobby may be.

San Francisco - Day 1

Early flight meant up at the crack of dawn. That's ok...too excited to sleep anyway. It's been over thirty years since I've been back there. I'm sure a lot have changed.

The cab ride was fairly tame as far as crazy cab rides go. We're staying at a flat in the Castro district. The place is much nicer and more comfortable than a standard hotel room. For the most part, the place is great as temporary home away from home but lacking if you like hotel amendities. . The first day was spent getting the lay of the land, shopping for necessities, followed by a short walk on Castro street. Interesting place.

Castro Theatre

The Castro Theater is a piece of San Francisco history.  We were tempted to see a show but doubt we would stay awake that long. It's been a very long day.

Dinner was a quick meal at a local cafe called Cafe Flores.  The food was excellent and prices really reasonable.  It seems to be the kind of place you could go in, have a coffee or drink, eat if you want.  

Spicy Shrimp Quesadilla

Unfortunately, the place we're staying at has a really crappy coffee maker.  We found a place that had great beans but you can't do much with a crappy machine.  The hunt for good coffee begins.

Too much white.

Y'know, I thought having an iPad was going to inspire me to create more, draw more, paint more.  Instead, I spend a lot of time staring at a white canvas.  A VAST WHITE CANVAS!!  There's so much white!

It was just time to dive right in and start making a mess. 

Countdown to San Francisco!  4 sleeps to go!  Woohoo!  It's been about thirty years since I was there last.  I'm sure the city has changed much in that time.  :)  Still, I'm really looking forward to this trip. 

Things I'm thankful for:
1.  Work was surprisingly good today.  Projects are coming along nicely.  It's kinda scary, really.  I'm waiting for the bad stuff to happen.  I have a great team of people to work with.
2.  The weather has cooled down.  It's still beautiful and sunny but not killer hot.  The nights are perfect for sleeping.
3.  Puppy was attacked by a loose dog today but was not harmed.  She didn't even seem to be tramatized by the experience.